Clay,
Thanks for your reply.
After lots of input here and quite a bit of discussion on our part, my wife and I have come up with a system very similar to yours.
I already procured a Spyderco Stretch with ZDP-189 steel for her pocket knife. For the majority of the skinning and deboning work she’ll carry this Shun Elite knife with SG-2 Steel (HRC 64-65), it will be carried in a homemade sheath.
www.amazon.com/Shun-SG0410-Gokujo-Boning...X8UQ/ref=pd_sxp_f_pt
That exact model is discontinued, but they have the Classic model in Damascus with a VG-10 core.
www.amazon.com/Shun-DM0743-Classic-Gokujo-Boning/dp/B001JPGZRW

This knife has a thin blade and takes the absolute sharpest edge imaginable (when sharpened with the Wicked Edge system, of course) and it will hold that edge until the sun burns out in a few billion years.

Seriously though, this knife is very high quality and I’m looking forward to seeing it in action on an Elk. I have never seen a knife cut a chicken in half as easily as this Shun knife. It just glides through the breastbone and backbone so easily that I was absolutely startled by it the first time (and I used to be in the restaurant business and have cut up thousands of chickens) While it will cut up chickens, it’s not really designed for that purpose due to the thinness of the blade and the hardness of the steel (possibly brittle, though I have had NO chipping at all).
I think that there are many thin blade Japanese style knives that would work well for processing game. Perhaps a 4” paring knife or even a small chef (gyuto) knife would work.

I plan to get the wifey a survival blade, but have not yet decided which one it will be.
Finally, for good measure she’ll probably throw one of these gut hooks, with changeable blades, into her day pack (me too).
www.amazon.com/Gerber-45924-E-Z-Zip-Shea...coliid=I6ETH51KAK8F5

For me this year, I think I will carry my Tops BOB knife as my primary game processing/survival knife (not ideal for game processing, the blade is thick at 3/16”) If I really get ambitious, I may get the Spyderco Wilson Southfork, thank you KenBuzbee for the suggestion, I had not seen that knife before you mentioned it.

My wife informed me that she had recently pre-ordered a new folding knife for me as a gift:
www.bladehq.com/item--Zero-Tolerance-0770-Knife-Aluminum--15193
I’m eager to try out the Elmax Steel and something about this design really appeals to me.
She got this because I had fallen in love with the knife that inspired the 770, the ZT 777:


It may be that the 770 won’t arrive in time for Archery Elk season, which means that I would have to get another folding knife, isn’t that a shame . (sure, I have several folders that would work, but what a great excuse to get some super steel)
All the best,
Cliff

Babo,
I was fondling some Bark River knives today (as I have done before).
They are very tempting, I was admiring many of them. My wife likes the Nessmuk, and I like that form factor also.

Philip,
You have great taste in kitchen knives, I enjoyed the diversion.
I really appreciate all of the suggestions from everyone and will investigate each one.
Cliff

Those are all great suggestions. While I like D2, for this project I want to stick to a PM type steel. I would like to try something in M390 so let me know if you see any other options with that steel.

johpe, there are a few Gyuto (chef) knives with m390 available. I don't know if you have used Japanese style chef knives, but once you do, your western style chef knives will go mostly unused.
visit www.chefknivestogo.com
Use the search box and input m390. You will see a few choices. My preference for a Gyuto is a length of around 240 mm. There is only one around 240 mm on that site that I could find in m390, this one:
www.chefknivestogo.com/riulm3st.html
The others all appear to be 210 mm. Some people like the shorter length, but these knives are very light weight and balance well at 240 mm. You really should scale up the length when choosing a Gyuto. Having said that, I would still pick a 210 mm Gyuto over ANY western style chef knife. Also search youtube for Richmond Ultimatum, there are several reviews. See this one:

Just fyi, I would pick a Gyuto with the worst steel in the world over a Henkels/Wustof/Sabatier or other thick,heavy western style chef knife, with the best steel in the world. (is that a dramatic enough statement for you? )
If you want to discuss Gyuto knives, just pm me.

This is part 2 of the thread titled " The 2 "One" Knives - Large

For the second knife I want something fairly small and with a modern “super steel”. I started off looking at small fixed blade knives until it occurred to me that this knife doesn’t need to be fixed blade. It can be a folder. Since it will be used for caping and deboning, it won’t be subjected to any heavy use that would be inappropriate for a folding knife. Also, using a folding knife could save weight and bulk.
This opened up a whole new world of knives with a wider selection of steel. While searching I found the Spyderco Stretch with ZDP-189 steel. Now this is truly a “super” steel. I had never used this steel before but I became very eager to try it. I found a Stretch for about $100 and ordered it.

www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=631

It arrived yesterday afternoon. I finished sharpening it today, including some re-profiling and convexing of the edge. Resulting edge is approximately 34 degrees inclusive. A progression of chosera stones down to 10k were used, followed by a variety of strops down to .01 micron diamond spray on Kangaroo.
Well, the only knives that I have seen that can compare are our two Japanese kitchen knives, one a Moritaka Guto with Aogami Super steel, the other an original Shun Elite boning/filet knife in SG2 (64-65hrc on both) Those two knives enter a realm of cutting ability that most people never experience. This Spyderco Stretch has entered that realm of sharpness.

What I don’t know is whether that blade shape will be appropriate for caping, deboning and skinning. What do you think? I still need to get one more knife in this category so I’m looking for suggestions
Thank again,
Cliff

Ken,
I like it.... thanks.
Keep em coming.

My wife and I are in the process of re-equipping ourselves with knives for Elk/Deer hunting in Colorado. Since we will be sharpening these knives with our Wicked Edge system, I thought it would be appropriate to ask about this topic here… 

I understand that Clay is an Elk guide, so I’m hoping that he can provide some input, but I’m sure others here have experience to share also.
We usually bivvy several miles into the backcountry so our knife selection will have to be versatile. We may be hunting with others that are not equipped with quality knives (probably not very sharp either), so ours may have to step in and take up the slack.

My thoughts right now are to carry two knives each. One medium/large knife that can handle camp chores, skin/dress an elk (or two) plus maybe a mulie, and act as a survival knife if the occasion arises. The second knife would be a smaller knife that would be used for caping and deboning and assist in fine survival tasks. My wife deboned an elk two years ago with a small caper. That worked, but a little more blade length would have made it easier, plus better steel.

So let’s attack the large knife first, I’ll start a separate thread for the small knife; the characteristics to discuss would be as follows (please add any others that I should consider)
1.Best blade style for the proposed mission? (hunting first priority, survival/camp chores second)
2.Blade Length
3.Choice of Steel
4.Blade Grind
5.Edge type
6.Handle
7.Other (ie, choil, jimping, etc)

I’ll get the ball rolling…
For camp survival/chores, I tend to prefer a larger knife, but for hunting it doesn’t need to be as large. I’m thinking a knife blade in the 5”-6” range. For survival knives, thick blades seem to be all the rage, but I don’t think that a thick blade is necessary. Most steels are plenty tough to handle my needs at 1/8” or maybe 5/32” thickness. I prefer a thin blade for dressing game, they just cut better. Having said that, most of the knives I’m looking at are running 3/16”. Drop points are common, but what say you about this part of the blade for game dressing purposes?

Here’s a few I’m considering: (links at bottom of page)
Esee Laser Strike- 1095 Steel, 5” blade, 3/16 thick, Spear Point, Full Flat Grind
Esee 6- 1095, 6.5”, 3/16, Drop Point, Full Flat
Ontario Blackbird SK-5- 154 CM, 5”, 1/8”, Spear Point, Full Flat
Survive Knives GSO-5 or 5.1- CPM-3V, 5” or 5.75”, 3/16”, Drop Point (almost spear), Sabre grind
TOPs (BOB) Brothers of Bushcraft- 1095, 4/58”, 3/16”, Drop Point, Scandi (sort of)
Scrapyard Knves Sykco 711 (or 511)- SR-101, 7-3/8”(or 4.5”), 3/16, Drop Point, Sabre
Swamp Rat- Rodent 4 or 6, SR-101, 4.625” or 6.37”, 3/16”, Drop Point, Sabre
Bark River Bravo 1.5- CPM S35VN, 5.8”, .217”, Drop Point, ?? Grind
Bark River Special Hunting Knife- A2, 5.87”, .2”, Clip pt, ?? Grind
Something else from Bark River, suggestions?

I think these are all fine knives, I like the CPM 3V steel on the GSO knives and the S35VN on the Bravo 1.5, but the price, ouch! I like the 1/8” thin blade on the Blackbird but I don’t have experience with 154CM steel. I like the Esee knives also. I already have a BOB knife and I will likely use it this year, but I want something different for my wife.

I look forward to your input on these and other options you may have. Please make comments about which characteristics are desirable and which are not.
Thanks for your help!

Links to knives mentioned:
Esee Laser Strike - www.eseeknives.com/laser-strike.htm
Esee 6 - www.eseeknives.com/esee-6.htm
Ontario Blackbird SK5 - blackbirdknives.com/
Survive Knives GSO 5.1 - www.surviveknives.com/shop/product/33
Survive Knives GSO 5 - www.surviveknives.com/shop/product/172
TOPS BOB - www.topsknives.com/product_info.php?products_id=371
Scrapyard Sykco Knives - www.scrapyardknives.com/knives.htm
Swamprat Knives - www.swampratknifeworks.com/
Bark River Bravo 1.5 - www.knivesshipfree.com/product_info.php?...mp;products_id=21862
Bark River Special Hunting - www.jaggedhorizonknives.com/special-hunting-knife.html

I re-sharpened back to 1000 grit at 12 degrees, it rolled.
I re-profiled the edge to 15 degrees, sharpened to 600 grit choseras, it rolled.

I'll continue the experiment to see just what it takes for this 1075 steel to hold an edge.
I know you want to see the knife, but I've tried so many different things on it that the blade is a mess and I'm embarrassed to show it. This is no longer a knife, it's an experimental piece of steel.

I complained about how awful this knife is and I may have been overly harsh because I do like the shape of the blade and the length at 4.25" seems ideal for a bushcraft knife. The cutting edge comes all the way back to within 1/16" of the handle. I know that many bushcraft knives are shorter than 4" but the extra length is great for batoning and I don't think finer work will suffer from this length. If I were to make a bushcraft knife, or commission one, I think I would go with a little less drop to the point so it would work better for skinning, thus making it a more all around knife.
The knife also comes with a decent sheath, that alone is worth $20. The handle shape, well, it's not bad. If this had 01 tool steel that was 5/32" thick and cost $50 instead of $33 it would be a great bargain, IF and only if they could get the hardending and tempering done right. You would still spend a lot of time re-profiling the edge because at the factory it's done by hand on a sander. My big gripe with this knife is the steel. Maybe it's me and the way I'm sharpening it that is the problem, but I've sharpened Japanese kitchen knives on my WEPS at 10-12 degrees and the results are exceptional (easily HHT 5). It's amazing what you can do with great steel.
There are pics of the Condor Bushlore knife on their website: www.condortk.com/productsdetail.php?prodid=11
and there are video reviews on youtube.

Mark, my wife had the injections in her elbow and her description scared me off. She is tuff as nails and has the highest pain threshold of anyone I know. I may yet give in and get the injections because recover is very, very slow and it's interfering with using my WEPS. There are knives that need sharpening!
all the best,
Cliff

BobNash wrote:


Bob, I'll make a video in the next day or so of my setup.
We plan to attend the Denver Custom Knife Show part of the event in Aug. Cya there.
Cliff
here is a link to the Denver Custom Knife show for those not familiar with it:
www.proknifemakers.com/2010showpage.htm

Hi Bob,
Good to hear from you. I was looking for you at the Tanner gun show last weekend.
Sailboat racing is mostly on the back burner because I have severe tendinitis in my left elbow. Too bad, it's been very windy. I did get out several times though.

The model I have is the Bushlore, 2nd gen., It's really quite a piece of junk. I'll try bringing it back to a courser grit and see what happens. I wouldn't recommend wasting $33 (at Amazon.com) on one. If you get one, it will never be something you would actually take into the woods and depend upon for anything. I got it just to work out the issues of sharpening a Scandi Zero.
I actually have a very slight convex on the Scandi edge simply because of the small amount of slop between the handles and the rod (yes, I'm using the Subway Straws and have modded the pivots). When you mount the knife high enough in my homebrewed low angle jig, you get more slop because you are working closer to the end of the rod. This has no ill effect on the edge. I could probably prevent that from happening if I was careful enough, it was faster to just let it convex.

Hopefully I'll hear from some other guys that have knives with a Scandi Zero. I would really like to know how the edge holds up at what angle with which steel.
all the best,
Cliff

For some time now, I've wanted to get a bushcraft knife with a Scandi grind but was concerned about sharpening this on my WEPS. So, I ordered a cheap Condor Bushlore knife for around $30 to experiment with. I made an extension for the WE vice so that I could achieve a lower angle. I found that the Scandi (Zero ground) on the Condor was about 10 degrees per side, blade thickness about 1/8”. I duplicated the angle as best I could and spent hours re-profiling the edge. The grind was obviously done by hand and was VERY inconsistent and uneven. I progressed through the stones all the way to Chosera 10k. Then I stropped with .5 micron diamond paste on Nano cloth and finally with .05 diamond spray on Kangaroo.
Frankly, I was disappointed with sharpness compared to all of my other knives. Sure, for the non WEPS person the knife would probably be considered amazingly sharp, but we're all a bit obsessive, aren't we?

Here's the problem, as soon as I put the knife to some soft pine to make a feather stick, the edge rolled, BADLY. The steel is 1075 and it's only hardened to about HRC 54. But I didn't think it would roll that easily. I proceeded to put a 12 degree micro bevel on the edge (an extra 2 degrees over the scandi). Same result. The edge rolled immediately. I guess I could go on increasing the angle to try to find where it would quit rolling, but it defeats the purpose of the Scandi Zero Grind.

Here's my question, who has a knife with a Scandi Zero grind, at what angle do you sharpen it and does it hold without rolling?
I would appreciate advice on this subject as well as recommendations on Bushcraft knives, though, my thoughts right now are to buy an Enzo Trapper Kit with 01 tool steel. If you have a Scandi Zero ground knife with 01 steel, I would love to hear more about it, about sharpening it and how the edge holds up under heavy use.
I would also appreciate comments about other steels being ground Scandi Zero. (D2 & most especially S30V)
thanks for your help,
Clifford