I use the 3m films to polish fiber optic cable ends to appear scratch free at 100x. Kay told me that Clay doesn't like lapping films. I don't know why but he must have a reason. I have a good supply of the film but so far I am happy with the results of the less expensive Maguiars paper. Woodcraft stores and their website stocks the film for the general public but it is pretty pricey. The film for fiber ends is availabe from telecom and networking cable distributors.

MartinSinger wrote:


so you have me a little confused here (not an unusual state for this old man ) let's take this in turn of each of your comments : so you would object to your edges scratch free at 100X? ..: Clays objection may be to the only know hazard of high spec films and that is the flex of the backing, but there is a lot of leather stropping going on here-abouts, so I hardly could take that point of argument seriously. : less expensive vrs more expensive, well the cheap papers you mention are intended for use in body shops to prep bondo slop for paint applications, typically they have huge gaps in the abrasive portion and large ares of blank paper, which is by design to allow for the intended use, if you are looking to precision sub micron polish blade edges then you have quite a different task at hand...

Just curious, have you tried any of your surplus optics paper on the WE? I am a hopeless experimenter and could hardly resist that temptation.. usually optical polishing is done with PDP nano-crystaline DP, a long long way from the silicon carbide in your body shop paper, so here's your chance to try some really upper end particles on your blades. sounds like a chance too good to pass up

BassLakeDan wrote:


Only have the WEPS for three days but will try my film to see the difference.

The higher grit papers are meant to be used on the painted surfaces, not bondo. They smoothe the orange peel and minimize the need for machine buffng.

Rather than stir contreversy I think I'll go back to just monitoring these forums.

I don't have any problem with the films themselves, I've gotten great results using them - I've shied away from carrying them because (and I know this is silly from a business perspective since consumables are the retailers best friend) they wear out so quickly, so I've tried to find alternatives that have a much longer life. All in all, they are a great, low cost solution if you're looking for high grits with a fairly firm substrate compared to the stropping option.

I just wanted to throw out my experience. As I have mentioned here before, when I first got my WEPS all of the finer stones were sold out or, as in the case of the Chosera and Shapton stones, not even available yet. I had to explore other avenues to get beyond the 600 diamonds. I bought sand paper up to 3000 grit FEPA (around 1200 grit ANSI) and lapping film from 3M from 12 microns down to 0.3 micron.

(As to the body shop reference, all of the info that I have seen says once you get to 1500 grit, you should move to polishing compounds with mechanical application. I kind of doubt that anyone is using 0.3 micron lapping film on paint. Yes I have done a bit of auto body painting)

Anyway, I could get some very nice edges with the different grades of abrasive paper. Mirror edges that cut like crazy. Unfortunately the papers, especially the lapping films, do not cut very fast and at most I could get two to three blades out of them before they were basically worn out.

Though relatively cheap initially, over time they would become real expensive when compared to ... even the expensive ceramic or waterstones.

In short, though I like what they do (though you need far more strokes), I have to agree with Clay, the extra work involved and the short life, just does not make them practical, at least for me.

Phil

I apologize for any misunderstandings. I too used to custom paint (had my own exotic and collectible car store for a few years). My experience is that over 1500 (not film) on clear coats eliminates the need for polishing compounds other than corn starch eliminating almost all the swirl marks.

But enough of cars (I never really get enough of them) and back to sharpening, the newest obsession. I tried 2 mil lapping film today (500cycles) after the rest of my stropping and it resulted in a better mirror finish but seems to have dulled the blade. I really want to avoid the cost and mess of the Choseras and Shaptons so I may have to find the budget for some ceramics as someone bought my Suehiro Rika today. I am pretty happy with the wet/dry papers though.

Thanks Phil, I appreciate your input.
Thank you,
Marty

No misunderstanding... maybe a bit of different methodology on the paint.. I have some 10,000 grit polish


Just curious, how did you mount the lapping film?
I was thinking that if you used them on one of the stock stones, and did not reset the angle ..
well just the thickness of the film may have changed the angle enough that you never were working the edge of the edge. Not sure why it would have gotten duller, but maybe you were polishing the bevel only.

The 500 strokes per side with the 3 micron (is that what you meant by "mil" ?) lapping film would take a really long time to re-profile the bevel so that you would get to the edge, if the angle was changed (decreased in this case, by adding thickness to the stone).

Do you use an angle cube to set your angles, or some other device that can read angles to 0.1 degrees?
If not, perhaps what I am thinking might make some sense.

If using the stock angle settings, perhaps you might try increasing the angle by a degree and doing maybe 50 to 100 strokes per side. This would add a micro-bevel and make sure you are actually getting to the edge of the edge with your film. You might be happy with the result!

Phil

PhilipPasteur wrote:


You may have the answer to my delema..I put the film on the 1000 stones and didn't recheck the angle cube. I'll try your suggestion tomorrow, it sounds reasonable.

Marty,

In defense of the poor lapping films, that seem to be taking a licking here, I would like to point out that these products encompass a wide range of quality and cost. I feel it is unfair to just lump them all together in some sort of generic world.

body shop papers, a few cents a sq foot,
hardware store wet or dry silicon carbides, less than a $1 sq.ft.
mid grade wet or drys, less than $2 sq.ft.
high grade wet or dry polishing films, AlOx or Silicon Carbide $3 sq.ft. link
mid grade diamond films, $5 link
very high grade advanced abrasive films $10 sq.ft (diamond high spec) link
copper backed films $25 sq.ft (diamond)link

Most of the above can be had as PSA or not.

just make us some flat glass paddles to sell and let us crazies hunt down our own polish tape

I defiantly would rather spend $10 for a pile of 6000 grit throw away polish tape then having to by a few full stones to clean after each use


I just pulled of my 50 / 60 grit stones
( when I say pulled I mean used hammer / screw driver to force them off )
and swapped them over for a few glass tops for my edge pro polish tape to go onto
glass shop only charged $1 a stone for custom cut glass

actually went the stingy way and just cut the polish tape down the middle and mounted them on the sides closest to the butt so the bare glass leads halfway before it hits the tape but does not seem to effect it


now about to order some full size 3m sheets 215.9mm x 279mm
( some being 50x minimum order per grit )


Grit Micron Color
400 30µ Green
600 15µ Gray
1200 9µ Blue
4000 3µ Pink
6000 2µ Aqua
8000 1µ Light-Green