Thanks for the comments! Very helpful.

Since posting I sharpened most of my everyday kitchen knives and I'm very pleased with the results -- all of them are wicked sharp. We'll see about longevity.

I sharpened one, a 6" Wusthof Classic Cooks knife, before I did the original post. I re-profiled it to 20 degrees on each side with the 100 grit diamond stones and went through my entire progression (200, 400, 600, 800, 1000, 1200 ceramic, 1600 ceramic, 5u strop and 3.5u stop.) Soon after sharpening, the knife went through some pretty rough handling by relatives cooking in our kitchen over the holidays. Predictably, it lost its razor edge. It wasn't completely dull, but it would no longer shave paper.

My first attempt at touch up began with the 800 grit stone and continued through the rest of the progression. It was a total failure. The knife wasn't appreciably sharper than when I started. It was only after reading a post from Phil elsewhere on this Forum that I realized I needed to raise a burr with the first stone in the touch up progression. Phil calls it a "micro burr". This makes a lot of sense to me -- a knife that's no longer wicked sharp probably has areas where the edge has rolled over, has been flattened, has broken off, etc. Just swiping with fine stones might restore a mirror finish along the bevel, but it won't necessarily fix a damaged edge. For that, you need to restore the bevel to the point of raising a burr.

I began again with the 800 grit stone, this time scrubbing in order to raise a burr. But even after 20 or so scrubbing strokes I barely got a burr at the heel of the knife and it was clear that it would take a lot more scrubbing to get a good burr. So I dropped down to the 600 grit stone. This time I got a burr along the entire length of the blade with just a few scrubbing strokes. The burr was quite small, which is probably why Phil calls it a micro burr. It was easily detectable with a Q-tip and I could just snag a fingernail on it. After some experimentation, I found that The Edge Tester from The Razors Edge is a great tool for determining burr status along the length of the blade, especially when the burr is small. The flat area at the end of the tool gets stopped by the burr when you push up along the bevel.

Once a burr was raised on each side, I ran through the rest of the progression using half the strokes I used when originally sharpening the blade. I still got a nice mirror finish and a wicked sharp edge. Shaving paper was no problem.

I suspect that if I protect the kitchen knives from abuse by the family, and touch them up frequently, I'll be able to start at the 800 grit stone.

On steeling, I think I've raised this point before, but it seems counterintuitive to me that you straighten a rolled edge by running the blade edge-first along the steel. I think if the edge is rolled more than just a little, this would just bend the rolled edge over even more, perhaps flatening and/or breaking it. I would think that the rolled edge would have to be nearly vertical in order to straighten it by running the leading edge against a smooth steel. Seems to me that running the knife along the steel spine first would be more effective for unrolling the edge. Does this make sense?

I tested this theory on a recently sharpened knife after cutting some vegetables. I ran the knife spine first back along the steel on both sides of the edge a couple of times, then stroked forward a couple of times. This appeared to restore the egde, but I need to do more rigorous testing on a variety of knives to be sure. Also, I need to try The Edge Tester on a rolled edge to see if it can detect it.

Haven't seen any posts about this, and can't believe I didn't notice it before, but when riser block is installed, the Knife Brace is too short! Just realized it when I tried to use the Knife Brace with a long thin blade.

Clay, do you plan to supply a longer Knife Brace with the Pro Pack Upgrade Kit, and can those of us who already have the kit get one?

I started a new thread because I think the title will show up a little better in searches.

A significant portion of my sharpening activity is focused on kitchen knives. Like many cooking enthusiasts, I have a collection of German J.A. Henckels and Wusthof kitchen knives acquired over about 20 years -- some purchased for specific needs, some received as gifts. I also have random kitchen knives that came from heaven-knows-where, plus a few cheap ($10) disposable Scandinavian paring knives. Finally, I have one Masamoto VG10 Gyutou 8.2" knife, but I've been using it sparingly until I determine the right sharpening and maintenance strategy.

We like to cook here, so most of these knives get a lot of use on a daily basis and it's a real challenge keeping them sharp. And for me, extremely sharp kitchen knives are the holy grail: they're safer than dull knives and they make the prep chore lots of fun.

Unfortunately, most kitchen knives, even the ones you get from high-end kitchen stores, aren't made of very good steel. This is a real problem when they're in heavy daily use. In light of this, I'd like to get an idea of what strategies WE users employ to maximize sharpness and life of the edge while minimizing the amount of sharpening required.

Sharpening Angle

In terms of sharpening angle, I'm with Clay: angles less than 20 degrees don't hold up for very long on my German knives made from X50CrMoV15 or similar steel. It's a real trade-off between having a razor-sharp edge and how long the edge lasts. All in all, though, 20 degrees still provides an acceptably sharp edge, provided I can keep it that way. Therein lies the rub. It only takes a couple of uses before the edge isn't so wicked. It's still acceptably sharp, but not as sharp as I'd like. Within a couple of weeks the knife is still "sharp", but it won't shave paper.

Of course, none of this applies to the "hybrid" Masamoto. The longevity is much better, the sharpening angle is 15 degrees and the bevel depths on each side are different. I may do another post with questions on how best to sharpen and maintain this knife. For now, I'd like to focus on the every-day knives.

Initial Sharpening Progression

So far, I've been following a standard WE progression: raising a burr with the 100 grit stone, then doing a few alternating strokes with the 100 grit stones to remove the burr, then running through the 200, 400, 600, 800, 1000 diamond stones, then the 1200/1600 ceramic stones, then the 5-micron and 3.5 micron strops. I use a light touch with all the stones. The result is a wicked-sharp edge that'll shave paper easily. The edge is always quite smooth under magnification, though not always to the point of being reflective. In other words, I'm happy with the edge I get.

But given the use of these knives and the lack of longevity of the edge, I'm wondering if going through the entire standard progression is really worth the effort. Would it be just as effective from a sharpening and longevity standpoint to terminate the progression earlier? What are you folks doing?

Using a Smooth Steel

I've tried steeling to restore the edge before each use. Following advice here and elsewhere on the web, I use a completely smooth F. Dick steel. However, results have been less than stellar. My impression is that that the smooth steel isn't restoring the edge to any appreciable degree. Could be that I'm not doing it right, though I've tried various techniques, including holding the steel at 90 degrees with the point on the cutting board and swiping the knife down at the approximate sharpening angle, and I've tried it with the steep pointed away from me and swiping the knife forward like TV chefs do it. I've tried exceedingly light strokes all the way to applying a small amount of pressure. I've tried doing just a few strokes and doing a lot of strokes. Again, I'm feeling that the smooth steel isn't really doing a whole lot. Why not?

Using a Ceramic Steel

I had a small very smooth ceramic steel that was part of my old EP Apex system (no longer in use), and have had some success restoring the edges of kitchen knives with it. I recently bought a larger version with a handle to use in the kitchen. A few very light strokes along the ceramic steel brings back some of the original sharpness, though not as much as I'd hoped for. Seems to me that the need to use a ceramic steel indicates that the problem isn't that the edge is rolled over, but that the edge needs to be re-sharpened. Would you folks agree with that assessment? Could this be why the smooth steel isn't doing its job?

Maintenance/Touch-Up Strategy

Once the knife has dulled to the point where the ceramic steel isn't improving the edge, it's time to touch up with the WE. But at what grit should I begin? I guess this really depends on how long I've waited before touching up, which is a question in itself, but let's assume that as soon as the edge gets to the point where it can just barely shave paper, it's time to touch up. I'm guessing this will be every couple of weeks for a daily-use knife, perhaps four weeks max. Given that criterion, at what grit would you begin your touch-up?

Thanks in advance for any sage advice you can offer!

After assembling the new arms for the first time, I saw the beginning of thread deformation on the micro-adjustment screws.

I had some 6-32 nylon screws on hand, so I snipped off 1/8" or so from the ends of two of them. I didn't bother with slotting them because the "slugs" just slid into the holes. They seem to be doing the job nicely -- no more thread deformation and when the thumbscrews are tightened down the micro adjustment screws don't turn. It's possible that I'll have to replace the nylon slugs every now and then as they wear/deform/split from the pressure applied. But it's cheap and easy protection for the far more expensive ball joints.

Seems to me the simplest solution would be to use a longer micro adjustment screw and a lock nut. The longer screw should protrude through the tapped access hole (on the side opposite the ball joints) enough so that a pair of lock nuts can be put in place when the micro adjustment screw is extended towards the vice as much as would be reasonable (equivalent to one mark on the beam scale?) I think this might work with one wrench to secure/loosen the lock nuts (as opposed to two, as suggested in another thread.) A nylock (aircraft nut) might work, too.

Another, less practical solution would be to enlarge the block so that the micro adjustment screw is always at least 1/4" shy of the top of the access hole. That way, a thumbscrew could be inserted in the access hole and turned to hold the micro adjustment screw in place. It would have to be flat in order not to damage the hex head on the end of the micro adjustment screw.

cbwx34 wrote:

Actually, I'm using Chrome. When composing the message, I hit Add File, select the file, and then I see the Insert button. But when I click it, the file isn't uploaded -- just the fakepath URL is inserted in the text. When I then Submit, the photo is uploaded and appears at the bottom of the page with a paper clip icon. When I then go into Edit mode, I can use the Insert button that appears next to the attached photos to get the correct URL in the text (or, I can just edit the fakepath URL so that it specifies only the file name -- presumably, that's because the file was uploaded when I hit Submit.

I'll try it with IE sometime. I've been finding more and more Chrome incompatibilities lately.

Thanks. You were right -- the file sizes were bigger than my last post (new camera.) I resized them down to less than 1MB each and it worked. BTW, I found that if you hit the question mark above, it takes you to the website of the Forum software provider. I found some info there suggesting that 3MB is the limit.

I'm not sure I'm doing the posting correctly, though. I used the Add File buttons to access the photos on my system, but they were not automatically uploaded when I hit Insert. Just a "FAKEPATH" URL was created. I had to Submit the post, then go back and edit it. Then I was able to place the cursor where a given photo should go and then hit Insert next to the photo attachment at the bottom. This placed a URL with just the file name in the correct spot, and everything looks right when I re-Submitted.

Is there a way to insert photos in the text before Submitting?

JamesBare wrote:

Excellent question. I had to deal with this when I upgraded. Since my case was a done deal, my solution was to remove the riser prior to packing my WEPS in the case. In order to be able to do this quickly, without removing the vice from the base, I drilled an access hole in the base:



I marked the position of the hole with the vice base in place, removed the vice base, and drilled the hole with a drill press. I recommend drilling a pilot hole and/or going slowly when the final size bit is about to break through the bottom of the case. Otherwise, the laminate may chip off around the hole. No big deal if it does, however.

I store the WEPS in the case with the riser removed and the jaws secured with the old (short) allen head screw. That way, I can close the lid and I can use the WEPS for a quick touch-up without removing it from the case. Note that I have to use an angle cube to set the angle because the markings on the new cross beam assume the riser is in place.

When I want to do a more extensive sharpening session, I remove the WEPS from the case, remove the short screw, install the riser, and secure the jaws with the new long allen head screw. I've added a larger allen head wrench to my kit for this, which is also handy for getting leverage on the new thumbscrews.

BTW, I've made a few mods to my case to accommodate the upgrade and additional stones. I expanded the side channel on the left to fit the larger WEPS II arms and added a hole on the right for an angle cube. I took some of the accessories out of the stone cases to make room for a pair of ceramic stones, and put them in smaller utility boxes that fit under the front stone case. Here's what it looks like now:



The stone boxes go on top of the smaller boxes and other stuff, behind and in front of the vice, as shown in my previous post. One stone box is full and the other has long accessories, the riser, the standard allen wrench, the long riser screw and a lab sample dropper I use to wet the ceramic stones. Here's what they look like now:



Hope this helps others who are building their own cases.

Wow, those look great. Put me down for a set, too!

Clay, any idea on upgrade price range and when they'll be available?

Thanks for the info on the Victorinox steel. I looked at that one on Amazon and almost bought it because I liked the black handle better than the F. Dick orange handle, but in the end went for the F. Dick instead. I figured this was a proven instrument, whereas there had been no information posted on the Victorinox. Very glad I bought the F. Dick!

I haven't given the F. Dick steel a real test yet, and haven't looked at it under magnification. I tried a few swipes of a blade that had been honed with a ceramic honing rod, which wasn't a good test. But it alerted me to the fact that this steel is a little more difficult to work with than the ceramic honing rods I've been using. There's no resistance at all, so it's more difficult to keep the blade properly position and to keep the steep vertical. Then narrow point of the steel can slip on the counter, too, so you need to use a wooden cutting board or a piece of rubber underneath.

Although I haven't confirmed it yet, I agree that a very light touch is the way to go with the F. Dick steel. If the edge has been properly prepared, I don't think it'll take much force to straighten out any rolls.

Great! If it happens, I promise I won't make you sharpen any of my knives .

VT? I like hearing that you have a manufacturing partner in our neck of the woods! We can sure use the jobs here in the North Country. I'm just across the border in NH. In fact, if I look out the window above my computer monitor I see the green hills of Vermont just across the Connecticut river. If you happen to be near the intersection of I-89 and I-91, let me know and I'll buy you the beverage of your choice!

How about:

Microfine Ceramic Stones

-or-

Microgrit Ceramic Stones

And if you come out with an even finer line of stones, you could call them Nanofine or Nanogrit.

Clay,

I'm the person who ordered ceramic paddles on April 28 and received them on May 5.

I hesitated to post my delivery date because I had a feeling something like this would happen...

Folks, I completely understand how you feel, but before assuming that WE has done you wrong, let's wait for Clay's response.

I have reason to believe that a computer error may have been responsible for my getting ceramic paddles ahead of the rest of you. There were some significant problems with billing and backorder notification when I ordered my Pro-Pack I back in February. I contacted WE about it, and they graciously corrected the problems and, to make up for it, moved up the priority of my Pro-Pack I order. I still had to wait after the second (third?) batch started shipping, but somewhat less time that I would have waited otherwise.

I suspect that my computer record is (or was) still marked with some sort of priority flag that resulted in my getting the ceramic paddles ahead of the rest of you. If I'm right, it was a one-time mistake, not something deliberate on WE's part, and it doesn't mean that lots of people who shouldn't be ahead of you have gotten their ceramic paddles. It may have been just me.

April 28

Got mine on Saturday

As promised in my Welcome Mat post, here are some photos of the case I made for my WEPS Pro-Pack I.

I started with this Pelican 1500 case that was sitting unused in my basement:


The Pelican case was a no-brainer for storing my WEPS because it didn't represent an additional cost. This is a $100 case, so I don't expect folks to run out and spend that kind of money to do what I did, unless you travel with your WEPS a lot (the Pelican 1500 is major rugged.) But perhaps my approach will suggest some techniques for building your own case based on a cheaper alternative.

I previously used this case to transport a ham radio transceiver, but later obtained a much lighter custom cloth shoulder bag for that. The photo below shows the cutout in the foam that I had made for the radio:


I had removed the strips of foam along the front and back to fit the radio. The photo shows the rear strip glued back in. I glued the front strip back in too. (Of course I saved them! Doesn't everybody? )

As luck would have it, with the strips glued back in, the WEPS base fit the cutout perfectly:


Actually, I didn't have to glue the strips back in because the cutouts didn't extend the full length of the base, but they do provide more padding and secure other items that go in the case, as you will see.

The inside of the case is 6 1/8" deep without the top and bottom foam. The WEPS vice, mounted on the Wicked Edge base with the stock rubber feet is 6" high. So there's 1/8" clearance between the top of the vice and the lid of the case. With the 1"-2" top foam pad inserted, the cover stops about 1/2" short of closing. It closes with gentle pressure, causing the vice to compress the top pad to 1/8". The WEPS is held firmly in place without undue pressure on the top of the vice.

In the photo of the inside of the empty case, a couple of photos back, you can see that the foam in the bottom of the case has been removed. This was necessary to fit the WEPS. With the foam in place, I felt there was too much pressure required to close the case, and hence too much pressure on the top of the vice. It's no big deal because the rubber feet on the bottom of the base provide all the padding needed on that side.

I made a slot in the foam for the WEPS Guide Rods and Alignment Guide:


The case foam is constructed of 1/2" x 1/2" x 3 1/2" pieces that can easily be ripped apart to make shapes like this. I filled the bottom of the slot with foam pieces to keep the rods and guide from slipping to the bottom of the case. The rods and guide could have gone in the boxes that hold the stones (to be revealed below), but I wanted to leave maximum room for stones and small accessories in those boxes.

Even with the foam in the top of the case pressing on them, the rods had a tendency to come out of the slot when the case was held upside down and shaken hard. So I used a cheap 9V battery clip from Radio Shack to hold them in:


The clip leaves are curved outward at the bottom, so they grip the foam and stay put.

Next, I made two pads to go over the Base Rod ends and cushion/support the boxes that hold the stones:


Here are the pads in position:


The case has plenty of room between the pads and vice for soft accessories. Here I've put in a couple of widths of painter's tape to protect blades from vice marks, some paper towels, a microfiber cloth and some alcohol prep pads:


Now for the best part. I found an ArtBin pencil box that holds the stones perfectly:


The pencil box (model 6900AB) costs $6.29. I'm using two of them. You can get them from the above website or from Amazon. I got one of mine at a local hobby store and the other from the Artbin website, along with this model (3900AB), which costs $5.59. The 3900AB works, but the spacer slots, which are used to make smaller compartments, make it a tight squeeze for the stones. This model box might be suitable for, say, a pair of stones set on edge and some accessories. I ended up not using it.

As you can see, the indentations for the cover clasps make the front trough too narrow to lay the stones on edge. But they do fit (snugly) if rotated 90-degrees. The case is soft polycarbonate, so I'm sure it's not harming the surface of the stones to have them sitting on the plastic bottom of the box. The box comes with soft rubber protective pads on the left, but I added some pieces cut from the Pelican case foam at both ends to cushion the stones and keep the from sliding around.

The box shown above has my Coarse-through-Fine stones. The second box has my Super-Fine stones, strops and stropping compounds:


Again, I used some small pieces of foam to better secure the stones, and some additional pieces to make smaller compartments for the stropping compounds, a Sharpies, Q-tips for feeling fine burrs, the knife brace, and the cool magnifying loupe that (unexpectedly) came with my Pro-Pack I.

The one thing I must remember to do is always insert the strops facing the same way so that the strops don't get contaminated with paste from the other side that has wiped off on the plastic trough walls. To help do this, I've adopted the convention that the stones ascend in grit rating from front to back of the case (coarsest in front, finest in back.)

Here's the case with the two boxes in position:


The boxes are elevated just enough by the two pads so that the foam in the top of the case keeps them in place. Also, the cover hinges of the boxes butt up against the vice, further securing the boxes. It does not appear that this stresses the vice at all. The case with the super-fine stones and strops is very light, much lighter than the case with the coarser stones, so I put the former in front so that there would be less weight on the vice when the case is held vertically. I don't think the vice is in danger of damage from the plastic boxes.

As for expansion, I could fit one more pair of stones or strops in the second box by putting the small accessories on either side of the vice, perhaps held in place with small plastic boxes. Or, I could put them in cutouts on the right side of the case. There's just enough room for a pair of stones in a cutout on the right side of the case, but I don't like the idea of the stones touching the foam.

For even more expansion, it turns out that by removing the two pads on either side of the vice, there's enough room to stack two cases in front of and behind the vice. They tilt to the front and back, respectively, because of the rise in the base of the vice, but they still fit and are held securely in place by the top cover.

I'm using the case mainly for storage and to keep the WEPS safe from inadvertent damage. I doubt I'll travel with it. I could sharpen with the vice in the case, but I wouldn't want to get metal filings all over the foam. So I'll be removing the vice when I need to use it. In that sense, Cory's beautiful tray is a more practical solution for storing/using the WEPS at home, if you have the room for it. My case does have the advantage of taking up less space.

So that's it! Hope this gives you ideas on making your own case. Any suggestions for improvements to mine are welcome.

My take on this is that steels do, in fact, remove metal. It's open to question whether a smooth steel or maybe a borosilicate steel is smooth enough not to remove metal, but certainly the grooved steels do and both of my ceramic steels remove metal too, as you can see below:



The dark stains are metal that's been taken off blades.

The top steel is from my EP Apex 4 kit. It got a good scrubbing with Bon Ami and a Scotch brite pad after the last time I used it. But you can still see some metal. The bottom steel is a Yoshikin Global G-25. It hasn't been cleaned in a while. I've been meaning to get a more abrasive cleanser (Comet?) to do that.

Note that most manufacturers of kitchen knives and sharpening accessories are calling these "ceramic sharpening rods". They aren't pretending that they're "steels". EP calls them "ceramic hones", a term that implies sharpening. I believe they say that the rods are for fine burr removal.

The grit ratings on these rods are somewhat of a mystery. I wasn't able to find any clear information on the grit size of the Global. I found some references to DMT rods with 1500 and 2000 ratings, though. EP rates their rod at 1200 grit, but as I said in a previous post, this reference claims EP uses a non-standard rating.

There may be something to the claim, because the EP hone feels much, much smoother than the EP 1600 grit ceramic stones that just arrived . I tested the WEPS stones, the Global rod and the EP hone with my finger and with a microfiber cloth. No question that both rods are much smoother than the WEPS stones, and the EP hone feels distinctly smoother and more slippery than the global rod (though not as much difference as both rods to the WEPS stones. I would guess in WEPS paralance these rods are well over 2000 grit, maybe higher.

The ceramic rods are finer than anything in my WEPS kit other than the strops. They're a lot quicker to access and use for light touch-up before using a kitchen knife. I suspect if they're used with very, very light pressure and just a few strokes (as I do), they'll correct flaws in the edge either by pressing them out or removing very small amounts of metal. I've found a light touch is essential -- anything heavier tends to make the edge worse than it was.

The issue with steels that remove metal is matching the edge. I see nothing wrong with removing a little metal to restore the edge, as long as it's not creating a second bevel or a new profile. This suggests practicing to match the edge angle when steeling. Probably difficult, but not impossible.

I'm thinking about picking up a smooth steel and seeing if that provides any benefit over the rods. I suspect it'll take more strokes and probably a firmer hand, especially with my VG-10 knife.

BTW, I've always been puzzled by the notion that steels "straighten the edge" -- i.e., correct indentations and rolled edges. I can see where smooth steel could press out an indentation, but I don't see how it can "unroll" an edge. The typical steeling action is from edge to spine, so if anything a rolled edge would be bent over and pressed into the edge. Perhaps it breaks off? If so, that doesn't seem good.

In contrast, I can see how a strop could unroll an edge because the action is spine to edge.